Chat Transcript - NAFA Leadership Chat January 10, 2005
| Kris_Pickering | I think that we are on our own best behavior - Dale was unexpectedly called into a work emergency |
| Sam.Ford | I think we have several BOD members with us and so that all can know them, can we begin by the BOD members saying hellp |
| Kris_Pickering | Help! |
| Ellen_FurFun | ROFLMAO |
| robin | lol |
| Sam.Ford | Ok hello |
| Mel | LOL |
| scottNET | LOL.....Hi all |
| scottNET | Just spoke with Lee, he will be on within a few minutes |
| Sam.Ford | Kris, Scott, are here. Lee will be joining later. and I am here. Sam |
| robin | how shall we start? |
| Sam.Ford | So who wants to "send your questions succintly to the room"? |
| ViperSBT | QUESTION - What came of the agenda item regarding recognition of McNabs? |
| Sam.Ford | Those are Dale's words not mine |
| Kris_Pickering | It was carried over to the 1/15 meeting but as a motion to recognize the AHBA as a registry |
| ViperSBT | So all breeds in the AHBA would be recognized? |
| Kris_Pickering | yes |
| Kris_Pickering | If that motion carried. The research showed that would amount to three new breeds, in toto. |
| valpearsoncalifornia | Is no one going to ask what three breeds? |
| Kris_Pickering | McNab and two others. I'd have to check on the two others. |
| ViperSBT | AHBA registers on merit not parentage, correct? |
| scottNET | I have that information in my files, but do not have it where I am currently logged on |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Link to AHBA breed list http://www.ahba-herding.org/breeds.htm |
| Kris_Pickering | thanks, Karen |
| Lee_Heighton | Hello everyone, my apologies for being a little late |
| ViperSBT | What is the reasoning to add this registry? Why not others? |
| scottNET | The motion was sent to recognize the McNabs. Since NAFA recognizes registries and not breeds, we asked the submitter to provide a registry that recognized McNabs. The motion that was submitted was to recognize the AHBA. The BOD is evaluating whether it fits the criteria to be a recognized registry |
| Booger | Who is doing the homework on the AHBA? |
| Lee_Heighton | All the members of the BoD have been exchanging information about the AHBA so that it can be discussed at the meeting |
| Booger | SO no one person is looking into it in detail to make a proposal? |
| Booger | Everyone is just gathering their own information? |
| Booger | What criteria will be used to determine if it is a good idea or not? |
| Lee_Heighton | I didn't say that. I said we we're exchanging information with each other. Good communication is always the best research |
| Booger | Who is spearheading it? |
| scottNET | The proposal has already been made. The links to gather the information concerning the AHBA has been circulated to all BOD members so that we can all be familiar with the information in order to make an informed decision |
| Booger | coordinating it? |
| Booger | What will the criteria be? |
| Lee_Heighton | It has been assigned to the Standing Rules committee |
| Booger | Is anyone from that committee present tonight? |
| Kris_Pickering | Yes, I am on that committee. |
| valpearsoncalifornia | Kris, I think it is pretty hard to tell a BC from a BC mix from a McNabb... Is that a concern for anyone? Especially regarding Multi Racing? |
| Booger | Can you speak to the criteria that your committee is using to determine if recognizing the AHBA is in the best interest of the sport? |
| Kris_Pickering | The focus is on comparing the characteristics and breeds in AHBA with those set down in the other registries NAFA currently recognizes. The problem you identify, Val, obtains with many breeds. We depend on honesty and good faith with all breed submissions. If you have thoughts on this, we welcome them - that's why we're trying to get info and mtg agendas out and published |
| Booger | But this is not the same type of registry as the Kennel Clubs NAFA recognizes |
| Booger | You said three breeds, but I think the list might be bigger |
| Booger | Appenzeller Sennenhund Catalonian Sheepdog Entlebucher Sennenhund Lapphund McNab Norwegian Buhund Picardy Shepherd Polish Lowland Sheepdog |
| Booger | Some are already recognized breeds, just with different names, how will you control that? |
| Booger | Seems like a huge waste of time and resources for a single breed to be added to the already massive list of recognized breeds. |
| Booger | And the McNab is registerable on merit, not parentage/lineage.... As our all dogs in the AHBA |
| Lee_Heighton | You may have the cart before the horse. First we will need to see if the registry is approved by the BoD. |
| MargeHenderson | I have some McNab experience and they do look similar to bc's to some but they are quite different in their work. |
| Booger | Being only a couple of days away from your decision, has this been discussed? |
| MargeHenderson | ROM is no easy feat and I think they admitted 3 last year |
| Booger | Lee, should we wait until after the BOD approves this to make statements about it? |
| scottNET | That was the discussion that led to tabling the motion to this meeting so that more information could be obtained about the registry |
| Booger | Was any vote taken on it at the last call? |
| Lee_Heighton | No. You're input is very welcome. You aren't making a statement as much as asking if the BoD has already made a decision |
| Lee_Heighton | We haven't |
| scottNET | no vote was taken, the motion was tabled |
| Booger | I am asking what process the BOD is using to make their decision |
| Booger | Sometime motions are tabled after votes failed, just wondering... |
| scottNET | The BOD felt that we did not have enough information to take a vote. |
| Booger | I guess I knwo I'll I will know until next week |
| Ellen_FurFun | May I ask if I am missing something? Is there a problem I am missing with this? Would recognizing (or not) a McNab be a "big deal" for some reason I am missing? Or is it the the actual registry that is the problem for folks? |
| Booger | thx |
| Booger | Registry |
| Booger | For me anyway... |
| Kris_Pickering | May I ask who you are, Booger? I don't recognize the name. |
| Mel | Agreed Ellen - I believe it is the Registry being recognized which should be of concern |
| scottNET | LN. Any changes to the rules have long lasting effects. Recognizing a registry means that NAFA will recognize any breed added to the registry in the future. Ensuring they use a proper method of recognizing a breed becomes very important |
| walter.davis | for multibreed racing |
| Booger | Great point Scott, I feel better knowing the BOD is taking that into consideration. |
| valpearsoncalifornia | I have concerns about a registry that does not operate on bloodlines. A McNabb might look different working sheep, but it runs flyball just like everyone else |
| Ellen_FurFun | ok, thanks....just trying to get a feel for the issue |
| scottNET | That was the whole reason the motion was tabled. We did not want to rush into any decision |
| Heather_CleverCanines | Why aren't the McNab's registered with the UKC? |
| OrangeCrushJane | They are a breed that developed in No. Cal |
| OrangeCrushJane | not the UK |
| Heather_CleverCanines | The UKC is the United Kennel Club. It's an American registry. |
| OrangeCrushJane | oops sorry |
| OrangeCrushJane | is that the one that recognized the Labradoodle? |
| Heather_CleverCanines | No, they do not recognize the Labradoodle. They have a process for recognizing new breeds. |
| Stephanie_secondwind | Is there any estimate on when the "unofficial regional championship" page -- http://nafadb.flyball.org/regchamp.htm -- will be updated to reflect the new rules about earning regional championship points? (It would be helpful for those of us who are still a little unclear on some of the finer details.) I know Dale was working on it, but just wondering if there is an update or estimate? |
| Lee_Heighton | Dale hasn't given us a time frame yet, but he is working on it |
| robin | Question. Out of curiosity, I noticed that Judy Hagan has been named named Acting co-RD for Region 3 on the website. Was that approved by the board? or just named temporarily? Also, I was under the impression that the naming of the new RD(s) for Region 3 was supposed to be this weekend. Has the decision been finalized already? |
| Stephanie_secondwind | OK, thank you ::smile |
| Sam.Ford | Judy is acting Co RD in Region 3 and the BOD will voice their opinions this coming weekend. |
| Sam.Ford | NO final approval has taken place. |
| OrangeCrushJane | Are all RD's "acting" |
| Sam.Ford | NO |
| OrangeCrushJane | pending approval |
| Jo_Skidz | Don't the NAFA rules specify that Acting RDs are ONLY acting for specific tournaments, not just for some unspecified general length of time? |
| scottNET | The ED has the power to appoint an acting RD for a region pending BOD approval at their next meeting |
| OrangeCrushJane | I was under the impression, from the last minutes posted, that all RD's would be "reappointed".....if that's true....are they all currenlt "acting" awaiting approval of the BOD |
| Jo_Skidz | So that's different from an Acting RD at a tournament that's assigned by the "real" RD with ED approval? |
| MargeHenderson | Sam,Other than Reg 3 which RD re-appointments are you going to put before the board on the Jan 15 meeting? |
| JYDog55 | who are the other candidates being considered for region 3? |
| Sam.Ford | Marge that list is still being worked on but there are several regions that will be presented. |
| Bill_KAOS | Sam, what are the criteria for selection of regional directors, how long are their terms and have you considered election by members instead of appointment? |
| Sam.Ford | Criteria isn't define in the rules and there is no term specified. |
| MargeHenderson | Sam, In what order will they be considered. reg order with 1 first or some other order? |
| Sam.Ford | Election is something that has come up on occasion but RDs are appointed by the ED to represent his office and there is not a way to elect them. |
| MargeHenderson | Seems like all 17 couldn't be done in one meeting |
| OrangeCrushJane | Sam...maybe you didn't see my question....... are all current RD's "acting" waiting for BOD approval??? if so....shouldn't the web page be changed to reflect they are all "acting" |
| Sam.Ford | Marge you are correct that all 17 at once isn't workable. I am aware of problems and vacancies that will need to be filled. No set order is planned. |
| MargeHenderson | We, the flyball public want a voice in this process Sam |
| Sam.Ford | The answer Jane is No. All are not going to be presented for approval. The RDs continue to serve and are already approved. I am reviewing and working with specific issues and with vacanies. |
| Sam.Ford | Thanks Marge but that isn't within the rules if you are talking about voting. If you are talking about coming to me with issues and ideas, I am open for that. |
| Jo_Skidz | JYDog55 asked who the other candidates are for Region 3 -- I think a lot of us are curious about this ... |
| Lee_Heighton | Sam, I hate to disagree but that point has not been addressed by a BoD vote. It is the opinion of at least a few of the BoD members that all RD's will need to be approved. |
| Sam.Ford | Several names have been given to me and I don't think it is proper for me to discuss any one in particular. Personnel mattes are not open for general discussions. Privately I am available but certainly I will not publically discuss people pros or cons. |
| Kris_Pickering | Yes, I was just typing the same thing. |
| Bill_KAOS | So there aren't precise terms for RD's... then how often are the appointments reviewed and what things do you consider in selecting someone to represent your office? |
| Booger | Good to see our BOD all on the same page |
| Kris_Pickering | I believe that they are re-submitted with the ED's term ends and that the criteria to some extent are stated in Rules 1.6 and 2e for RDs and judges. |
| MargeHenderson | Lee, that's the way I read it too |
| MargeHenderson | Sam, no one is asking you to discuss personell. We just want to understand the process |
| MargeHenderson | Will you review all RD's? |
| robin | Actually, I'm just curious to know why one was appointed "acting" when the vote is the following weekend and may or may not be approved by the BOD. What was the rush? I'm not saying I like or dislike Judy as a choice, but am curious about why naming it on the website when it hasn't been approved by the BOD. |
| Sam.Ford | Yes in Time Marge all will be reviewed. |
| robin | question about the lights. has anything been changed since Dale's tournament as far specs go on the prototype?i.e. changing the color of the "third" light? When do you think the production of them will commence? |
| Lee_Heighton | I am sure we will be receiving more information about your questions during the Technology Committee report on Saturday. We are supposed to have the final product at the end of March |
| robin | thanks |
| Bill_KAOS | Back to the subject of RDs. I'm confused Kris in light of your response. Sam earlier replied to my question that the criteria for RDs is not defined in the rules. All I really want to know from Sam is what kind of things does he consider in the selection process. |
| Kris_Pickering | I was writing as to my view, which may not be Sam's. I think the job of the RD and the criteria I'd apply in reviewing his nominations are guided by the job the RD is assigned - that's stated in Rule 1.6. And I think the discretion and judgment called for by the assigned duties are also really well addressed in Rule 2e. It's just what I've looked at in thinking about this. |
| Sam.Ford | Some of the criteria for an RD is knowledge of rules, experience with flyball and tournaments in general. Attitude and the ability to work with the flyball community and the ED. These are some of the things that I consider. |
| Bill_KAOS | Thanks Kris. What's your view Sam? |
| MargeHenderson | Sam, Just to make sure I have this straight, after the rd review all rd's will be sent to the board for approval? All at once or a few at a time? |
| JYDog55 | Could someone answer Robins earlier question |
| Jo_Skidz | Sam, how will you judge "ability to work with the flyball community?" |
| Sam.Ford | I am undergoing a review of all RDs whether they require a reapproval seems to be up for question. |
| Sam.Ford | I intend to review whether or not they require reapproval. |
| MargeHenderson | Not in my interpretation of the rules |
| robin | which question was that again jydog55? |
| Bill_KAOS | I think the ED should have some discretion here. That's why I'd look to know what his thinking is? What is he considering in the RD selection process? |
| JYDog55 | about the rush to update the web page with the RD before approval |
| robin | oh yes, that one. |
| Margaret_BITP | Under that interpretation RD's could serve with no member of the current board having a say, they could serve forever, Sam. |
| Margaret_BITP | With only the approval of some board from the distant past. |
| walter.davis | and the day to day, week by week, approval of the ED |
| Sam.Ford | Yes Margaret that is correct |
| valpearsoncalifornia | Could we change topics for a moment? I have a rule clarification. |
| robin | I guess what people want to know is why the rush to name an "acting" RD with one week before the vote when there is already an RD in place. Like I said before, I'm not bashing anyone, but am curious on why it was done and the timing of it. |
| Bill_KAOS | Good question Robin. |
| Sam.Ford | I think getting information out so that it can generate commitments is a good thing. Posting Acting is a way to get this done. Also there are RD activities that must go on ahead of tournaments and if that persons name is out there work can continue. |
| Sam.Ford | Prior to this names were presented without notice sometimes and I think getting information out is a good thing. |
| Jo_Skidz | Yet you won't discuss "personnel' and tell us who else might be under consideration? |
| robin | fine if that person is accepted, but if he/she are not? Will they still go as "acting"? |
| OrangeCrushJane | could be a personal embarassement to have their "acting" retracted..... |
| Sam.Ford | If the BOD doesn't approve someone, it is back into the process again until and RD is appointed and approved. |
| MargeHenderson | That could be embarassing to the acting |
| Sam.Ford | Anytime you step forward there can be a price to pay. Thankfully there are some willing to take on this burden. |
| robin | Couldn't the names be added to the agenda prior to the meeting? instead of being named? This way you can get positive or negative feedback for you choice as YOUR representative. |
| JYDog55 | Jan was already RD why need to add another with one week to go? |
| valpearsoncalifornia | Ready for a new question? Can anyone clarify whether a team's best time from a season, even if it was earned out of region, is counted in determining the regional championships? |
| JYDog55 | back to RD please |
| Margaret_BITP | I don't think they are finished with RD's |
| valpearsoncalifornia | Ok, happy to wait |
| Mel | my apologies - by all means - back to RDs . . . |
| Jo_Skidz | So, what about Robin's comment suggesting that proposed names be added to the agenda for positive and negative feedback prior to the meeting -- this should help in YOUR selection, Sam -- and it's just what you say you want from people: feedback and input. |
| MargeHenderson | So Sam why don't you put "acting next to all the rd's? |
| MargeHenderson | Why just a few? |
| MargeHenderson | You have said that all will be reviewed |
| Jo_Skidz | And, as Robin also asked, why add Judy when Region 3 already has an official RD? |
| Sam.Ford | Because IMHO they aren't all acting. |
| Margaret_BITP | That should be done for all the RD's, get feedback from the people. |
| MargeHenderson | Don't you want the feed back then |
| Karen.O.Gateway | With all due respect Margaret, the ED is always there for feedback. RD changes can be made at any time during the year...pending board approval |
| Sam.Ford | Margaret as I said earlies I am available for comments and have spent time communicating with many of you in the last few months. I have even traveled to tournaments just to be available and listen. So I am always ready to hear from you. |
| Sam.Ford | Here is the number. Just like the last chat. Mynumber is 800 683- 8703 ext. 122 and I'll pay for the call |
| Margaret_BITP | I am talking about when they are proposed to the board, so the board knows how people feel. |
| Sam.Ford | The reason they aren't on the agenda is purely a personal issue that has kept me from being able to communicate lately. |
| Sam.Ford | Now we can go on to the next question. |
| Jo_Skidz | But you haven't answered all the RD questions! |
| Ellen_FurFun | argh |
| Jo_Skidz | What about posting Judy as "acting RD" when there's already an RD in Region 3? That's been asked four times now. |
| JYDog55 | thank you! |
| Sam.Ford | The acting RD was to be added weeks ago but just got posted. It has worked and information and comments are being received. |
| Jo_Skidz | So she was posted as "acting RD" in order to solicit input from your constituents? Have others been so posted as well? |
| MargeHenderson | Does that answer your question skidz? |
| Indylouise | But that still doens't make any sense...if there was already an RD listed...why did there have to be an "acting" RD also? |
| Bill_KAOS | Are we waiting for Sam to respond? |
| Chuck.Griep | I'm not , think he said what he wanted to say. |
| Sam.Ford | If you are asking why a Co Rd. That idea came from Region 3 flyballers. Why posting...to get information out. |
| Jo_Skidz | Well, but of course we could have lived without a co-RD for one more week. We've basically lived with an RD at all for about five years ... |
| Jo_Skidz | Okay, I'll shut up now. |
| Indylouise | Were there anyother people that were considered for "acting" RD or how was this decided? |
| Ellen_FurFun | I'm waiting for a new topic, myself........no offense intended....but....the horse appears dead to me.......... |
| Ellen_FurFun | and buried......... |
| JungleJane | LOL |
| Sam.Ford | Seveal names were suggested and submitted and I made a choice based upon the input and information at hand. |
| Indylouise | Thanks- |
| JYDog55 | why were they not put out there for input too? |
| Bill_KAOS | Apparently the horse has new life? :^) |
| JYDog55 | Sorry there are alot of people on here tonight from reg 3 that are concerned |
| Traci_HV | Sam, did you actually speak to these people who were suggested to see who they were and what they were about before you made you final decision? |
| Sam.Ford | I will be more than happy to speak to you about Region 3 issues. Please call me so we can talk about the issues and decisions. |
| Jo_Skidz | We can't all call you at once -- so here we are. |
| Indylouise | Just hope that the concerns are heard and considered! |
| JYDog55 | Ok I will, should I talk to other board members too |
| Ellen_FurFun | QUESTION: Has there been any new info regarding who will be permitted to speak on behalf of the BOD re: BSL in Ontario? |
| Sam.Ford | You certainly can talk to them. They are listed as well. |
| Ellen_FurFun | QUESTION: Any idea when notes will be available for the teleconference? |
| Ellen_FurFun | QUESTION: Will the new website format discussed recently be going into affect any time soon? |
| Lee_Heighton | Ellen, we have been recognized but they won't advise who actually is allowed to speak until a later date. We will post any new information to the site as soon as it is available |
| Ellen_FurFun | figured i'd throw some questions out there....answer whenever anybody gets the chance |
| Lee_Heighton | The minutes for the teleconference should be approved after this weekend. |
| Ellen_FurFun | oh, and affect=effect |
| Ellen_FurFun | LOL |
| Lee_Heighton | Dale will have to respond at a later date about the website. That's one question I can't answer right now :-) |
| Ellen_FurFun | thanks lee.... |
| Ellen_FurFun | Oh, one more....QUESTION: Does there appear to be a light at the end of the tunnel for the discipline issues that are still out there? (I hope) |
| Lee_Heighton | Ellen, we are addressing several Disciplinary issues that were carried over from last year but I hope to have them all resolved before the end of the month. |
| Ellen_FurFun | That is excellent news...........make room for the new ones (tongue in cheek)....LOL |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | question....is anything going to be written into the rules regarding "legacy" weekends? |
| Sam.Ford | There is going to be a written policy submitted to the BOD for their consideration at the meeting this weekend. |
| Bill_KAOS | What is a "legacy" weekend? |
| Sam.Ford | "Legacy" weekend was a term used to describe an unwritten rule allowing a team to claim a weekend for a tournament date based upon their prior use of that date. |
| Bill_KAOS | Thanks. |
| Sam.Ford | Use a weekend for a tournament 2 years in a row and you were given a "right" to that weekend for the next year |
| Kris_Pickering | We're trying to work with prior policy and set it down in a written rule everyone can understand and reference. The ED and his staff are coordinating with the Rules Comm. on getting this hashed out. |
| JungleJane | is that going to stay the same? The 2 yr Rule? |
| Kris_Pickering | It is open - what do you think on it? |
| JungleJane | I think that is fair. |
| Margaret_BITP | How many legacy weekends can one team have? |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | I think 2 would be fair for the amount of weekends |
| Kris_Pickering | that;s another facet of this Margaret, and again, I'd like to know what people think is fair? |
| Kris_Pickering | thanks, Josh. It does seem there needs to be some limit on it or it could discourage new teams from getting involved in hosting. |
| BarbaraFAX | What are you considering using as the *date* for the weekends ?? Numbered weekends, or referencing proximity to holidays ?? |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | if there was no limit, new teams could not host easily here |
| Mel | the legacy needs to expire though if the weekend isn't used |
| JYDog55 | I think 2 would be good |
| Mel | in my opinion, of course |
| BarbaraFAX | yes, it should expire if not used. A club can't lock it up and not use it |
| Kris_Pickering | good point, Mel. As for your ?? Barbara, Sam has been looking at that with the sanctioing taff, I think. |
| Kris_Pickering | staff, sorry |
| BarbaraFAX | thanks Kris |
| Sam.Ford | We have been reviewing the numbering of weekends and what effect that would have on floating holidays. |
| Sam.Ford | We pulled up the last five years as a study to see the effect. |
| Sam.Ford | Seems numbering may be the best option |
| BarbaraFAX | It can play havoc every few years, but it mostly works in other venues. I don't see how you can make a *rule* without specifying HOW the weekends are selected to be *legacy* |
| Ellen_FurFun | hmm..would a team be able to give their dates to another team of their choosing? just comes to mind...say in terms of co-hosting.............giving another team the host spot (lead role) for a year...and what issues does anyone see arising out of that? |
| BarbaraFAX | I think they should be able to give it away once and get it back the next year |
| BarbaraFAX | multiple times and they no longer *own* the date |
| Mel | good point Ellen - there have been situations where co-hosting has not necessarily been a good experience, so who would claim the weekend? |
| Sam.Ford | Nowe don't see handing out weekends between teams works. |
| kim | i think the original club should get it back |
| Sam.Ford | We also think that only one team may have the right to the weekend. |
| JungleJane | Mel> LOL |
| Ellen_FurFun | actually, i don't think co-hosting is recognized by nafa... |
| BarbaraFAX | the original club should get it back |
| Ellen_FurFun | is it? |
| BarbaraFAX | yes it is, I HOPE since we are planning one |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | LN...it is in the situation of limited tournaments |
| Sam.Ford | Co hosting counts in some things but not in every case |
| Ellen_FurFun | just wondering if the team that "owns" the weekend has the choice to give it to a particular club |
| JungleJane | us too |
| Sam.Ford | The Legacy Team could pass and then it would be up to the first request received after that. |
| BarbaraFAX | Sam, can you explain *not every case* ?? |
| Sam.Ford | Co hosting counts for "hosting a tournament". But it may not count as having a legacy. |
| JungleJane | I think co hosting plays an important roll in flyball, it helps teams "work together", and I think that is important as a team racing together. |
| BarbaraFAX | oh, thanks.... |
| Sam.Ford | In the past only one team reserved the weekend. Taht team was the one listed first. |
| Bill_KAOS | Clubs usually plan to host a tournament several months to a year away. Is there a time limit within which the so-called "legacy" club would have to decide (give notice)..if it isn't going to use its usual date? |
| Sam.Ford | But with any unwritten rule there exist exception all along the history of flyball. That is what we are working to weed through. |
| Kris_Pickering | Bill, I agree with that thought - it concerns me too. |
| Sam.Ford | We want a clear policy that can be understood and followed into the future. |
| Sam.Ford | Bill yes. There would be a time that you must sanction your tournament to reserve the weekend |
| Karen.O.Gateway | I think a 'legacy' club should have their date sanctioned at least 6 months before the tournament. |
| Sam.Ford | If you don't sanction by a certain time then it is an open weekend. |
| Bill_KAOS | Sam, What are you considering in that respect? |
| Ellen_FurFun | I also think that is fair |
| JungleJane | Karen> that seems fair to me |
| Sam.Ford | We are planning 25 weeks ahead. |
| Ellen_FurFun | even though it could affect my team negatively...we are notoriously last minute....LOL |
| Kris_Pickering | good use of affect, there |
| Ellen_FurFun | LOL kris..why thanks |
| BarbaraFAX | providing the sanctioning is done (by NAFA) and posted more than two months before the event date... |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Ready for a new but related questions? |
| JungleJane | speaking of sanctioning, I must say things are excellent now, speeding right along. |
| Karen.O.Gateway | QUESTION: Has any consideration been given to a change in the '300 mile' rule? |
| Kris_Pickering | Not that I know of. Do you think it's a problem? |
| Karen.O.Gateway | It seems that there are many frustrations in the heavily populated flyball areas that clubs are unable to sanction tournaments, yet cannot get into tournaments |
| keltykai | More populous regions coul dhandle more than one limited tournament |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | the only problem with that is teams would have to enter both |
| Karen.O.Gateway | If you look at some areas, clubs who never meet cannot hold tournaments on the same weekend... Example NY and Ontario |
| Karen.O.Gateway | I'm not suggesting we eliminate it. Rather change it. |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | different regions as well |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Perhaps to read 'within 250 miles outside of the region.....and keep the within 300 miles for in-region tournaments |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | I would agree it needs to be adjusted...prehaps allowing tournaments in different regions even if they are within that 300 mile |
| scottNET | Not to throw out a stock statement, but a proposal sent to the BOD will be read and considered |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Thank you Scott....it will be presented |
| Ellen_FurFun | i think that may be a hind |
| Ellen_FurFun | hint |
| Ellen_FurFun | LOL....or hind... |
| BarbaraFAX | 50 miles isn't enough of an adjustment there |
| Karen.O.Gateway | How many then? |
| BarbaraFAX | Perhaps consideration should be -- limited tourneys have a LOT less mileage between them, and unlimited may need to stay the 300 miles ?? |
| Lee_Heighton | With the number of tournaments that are available to almost everyone right now. Why not just make it an in region rule. |
| BarbaraFAX | I just didn't see 50 miles affecting the outcome |
| keltykai | switch to kilometres |
| Karen.O.Gateway | LOL |
| Lee_Heighton | I do disagree that we have different rules for limited and unlimited tournaments. Too confusing. |
| Kris_Pickering | It seems like there are two factors that are a problem - how it works with limited tournaments and why it applies at all to out-of-region tourneys. |
| Ellen_FurFun | well...actually lee...it does still affect some areas..... |
| Kris_Pickering | Is that fair? |
| Ellen_FurFun | region 9 and 15, for instance...and 13 for that matter |
| Lee_Heighton | Ellen, how so. |
| Ellen_FurFun | as you may have noticed...region 15's tourneys have dropped in number considerably |
| Ellen_FurFun | if we are able to finally get clubs hosting again.... |
| Ellen_FurFun | some tourneys in region 9 and 13 may make it difficult to get a tourney off the ground |
| scottNET | guess I'm not following you LN |
| Lee_Heighton | How does legacy affect clubs deciding not to host tournaments "in region". |
| Ellen_FurFun | not legacy...maybe i am tired....i suppose it is the 300 mile thing |
| Ellen_FurFun | clubs may opt to go to a closer tourney in another region..... |
| Ellen_FurFun | scott, if you will remember...like NSL.....when it was 9 |
| scottNET | correct |
| Ellen_FurFun | many teams went to nst instead of the tourneys in new england...that was part of our region then |
| scottNET | hate to do this, but I do need to go. Thanks to everyone who came |
| Ellen_FurFun | nite scott |
| JungleJane | night scott |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | NIght Scott |
| Sam.Ford | I am out also. Thanks all. |
| Ellen_FurFun | nite sam |
| Karen.O.Gateway | nite Sam |
| JungleJane | night Sam |
| Kris_Pickering | good night, Sam |
| Lee_Heighton | Good night Sam |
| Ellen_FurFun | my comments were not against changing the rule...just bringing up some issues that occured in the past |
| Lee_Heighton | Oops, too late |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Where was NSL Ellen? |
| kim | Ellen is correct there are problems there |
| Ellen_FurFun | in maryland...now same as our region |
| Karen.O.Gateway | So are you saying that if the 300 mile rule became within region only, people wouldn;t come to some tournametns |
| kim | there are teams in region 9 that will go to region 15 tourneys because it is closer |
| Ellen_FurFun | but there are still tourneys closer...and more preferable...say NETB...than some in our own region, that may affect a newer team's entries |
| kim | for teams that aren't in the running for regionals many opt for closer distance |
| Ellen_FurFun | yes, karen...i know it seems weird...but let's face it....some teams may not be in contention for champs..... |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Ok, what if there were a milage limit for out of region tournaments too? |
| Ellen_FurFun | so it doesn't reallly seem to matter for them...but it does...because it may affect entries for the hosting club...more specifically, a new club |
| Karen.O.Gateway | as there is now. |
| kim | and some teams in region 15 are having problems finding a place to host so can't really get their normal dates |
| Ellen_FurFun | i think it may be beneficial karen...i wish it could be cut and dry, but often it isn't |
| kim | so making the 300 mile distance less or non-existent could help them |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Would help the new teams? |
| Ellen_FurFun | actually, kim and i are seeing it different ways, i think |
| kim | help all the teams that host plus allow newer teams to run in region |
| kim | but we do agree their is a problem |
| Ellen_FurFun | yes |
| kim | and i am region 9 so phooey on ellen |
| Ellen_FurFun | LOL...phooey on yourself |
| Karen.O.Gateway | I'm not following. Is the problem that 300 miles restricts the clubs that can host tournaments? Or is the problem that some clubs would rather drive a shorter distance, than race in-region? |
| kim | both are issues |
| Ellen_FurFun | i see it as the latter..... |
| Ellen_FurFun | but there is a case for the first |
| Ellen_FurFun | which, i suppose, is the problem...LOL |
| Karen.O.Gateway | In which case the only rule to fix that problem is to force clubs to race in -region] |
| keltykai | kim, ellen said there were fleas at your tournament |
| jayne.mcquillen | We sometimes do that, we will drive 2.5 hours to region 4 tourney in ILvs 5 hours to a tourney in Minneapolis. But on the other hand if we had to rely on filling our tournament with only teams from our region we wouldn't be able to put one on |
| kim | for me my team stays in region and will drive 4-5 hours for a tourney when on the same weekend in region 15 there is a tourney less than 2 hours away |
| Ellen_FurFun | which i also don't really like... |
| kim | dont like what fleas |
| Ellen_FurFun | don't like the idea of forcing teams to run in region |
| Ellen_FurFun | but.... |
| Ellen_FurFun | if they are unable to "compete" if you will......then people would opt to run flyball in-region |
| BarbaraFAX | okay guys... try this...what incentive does a club have for scheduling a tourney *against* another one close enough to draw the same clubs as entries ?? |
| Ellen_FurFun | which is accomplished by the distance limit |
| Ellen_FurFun | doesn't really say...you can't run in another tourney |
| Karen.O.Gateway | hmmm doesn't sound very profitable to NAFA |
| Kris_Pickering | In other words, Barbara, let the market place decide and take the limit off altogether? |
| keltykai | How is communication in your regions |
| Ellen_FurFun | just can't have a tourney that competes for entries |
| Ellen_FurFun | which i think was prolly what was behind the limit in the first place |
| Kris_Pickering | Does anyone know the genesis of the 300 mile rule? I don't. |
| BarbaraFAX | almost... to me, it seems absolutely STUPID to use a weekend that a nearby club is using, so why do it ?? |
| BarbaraFAX | in our region, the communication is EXCELLENT |
| kim | communication is fine for the most part but when you don't have many options for places to hold a tourney plus not many dates, you are screwed |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Kris, my best guess is that it was created so that tournaments were not competing for entries at a time when flyball was much less popular |
| jayne.mcquillen | We aren't a team on the hunt for regional points, so what would it matter? We do seem to have a lot of cross over between the regions, but hey, I didn't make the regions. Region 4 covers an IMMENSE amount of territory, from like TN to KS and even up to WI. For many teams on the outskirts of a region non-regional tourneys are their only chance to play at all. |
| BarbaraFAX | that is true...so it needs to become a cooperative effort among clubs so tourneys can happen and be profitable |
| kim | then you also have to take into account that some teams have members in 4 states |
| Ellen_FurFun | i understand that, but am only saying it could be an issue for a club who is trying to finally put on a tourney, and not have the entries to sustain it.... |
| kim | yep |
| Ellen_FurFun | lord knows i really don't care about region when i play....i actually opt for the best venue (according to me) |
| kim | we sort of have this quandry now where my team will have to make a decision |
| Kris_Pickering | sure, and if it didn't exist in some form, the legacy weekend concept would drop out too. |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Ellen, does the 300 mile rule help those clubs trying to put on a tourney now? |
| Karen.O.Gateway | that wasn't rhetorical by the way |
| Ellen_FurFun | well, i can only say it HAS in the past..... |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Ok, how about another way to override the 300 mile limit. |
| BarbaraFAX | not necessarily.. there can still be some limits and legacy weekends may still have a place.. |
| Ellen_FurFun | but because we are dropping tourneys so rapidly in our region, it isn't an easy thing to gauge right now |
| BarbaraFAX | what is going on there Ellen ?? |
| jayne.mcquillen | For instance, a team from KS is thinking about hosting a tourney in Wichita KS, (4) and here in Iowa (3) we are ~5 hrs away, but teams in Milwaukee, WI (4) are ~ 10 hrs away but in their region (4). |
| keltykai | the 300 mile rule has been waived on consent |
| Ellen_FurFun | the problem is, if the tourneys pick up.....but are forced to compete with closer tourneys out of region, we may never get them off the ground |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Right Pete, maybe we need a way for NAFA to override in cases that a host team doesn't want to allow another club to sanction....but they really should. |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Hmmm, how about the ED may grant permission if the tournament is within 300 miles of a sanctioned limited tournament? |
| Karen.O.Gateway | Ellen, they will always be competing with out of region tournaments |
| Ellen_FurFun | not if a tourney is kept from being within a certain radius |
| Karen.O.Gateway | like 300 miles |
| Karen.O.Gateway | or maybe 250 miles |
| Ellen_FurFun | like i said....i have no BIG problems with lifting the limit....but i do see where it could be a problem |
| Ellen_FurFun | because it has in the past |
| Lee_Heighton | Well everyone. I am running on too little sleep and really need to crash. Thank you to everyone who participated and I look forward to talking to you next month. Till then. |
| Ellen_FurFun | nite lee... |
| BarbaraFAX | nite Lee |
| Chuck.Griep | nite |
| JungleJane | thanks lee..night |
| Ellen_FurFun | i do want to thank the BOD for staying up |
| Josh_CoolRunnings | Night Lee |
| Ellen_FurFun | they went beyond the call |
| Ellen_FurFun | every one of them |
| BarbaraFAX | it's still early for some |
| Kris_Pickering | I also need to go - am still at work. Thank you all for being here. |